You’re right, Jon, the World needs a change. Just not this way, not forcefully. 🙂
Very true. And characters are going to have to make serious choices soon.
People are killing intelligent beings to eat. Not in emergency. For routine dining. Why not use force to end it?
Great point, Mary. Even deeper… would you sacrifice your life, or the lives of others to change such a world?
He’s kidding, right? Our world has vastly more brutality, mindless violence and slavery than his world could ever have. The technology he mentions only makes things worse. It also doesn’t have hot deer girls.
Good point… about the hot deer girls. 😉
Seriously, you hit the thematic head with the hammer. Which world is better? As you say our world has just as much violence and exploitation (albeit in different forms). There are no definite answers and it’s something the characters will have to explore.
I would assume that GATES’s version of the modern day either did not have those things (aside from him being the uncontested ruler), or that he simply did not feel the need to mention it. It’s an old trick – simply leave out some “unimportant” details on the grounds that “you didn’t ask.” Also, Jon was Banestone-crazed when he saw the cake lie-world was presented to him, so he would have had no reason to ask.
End of Line
I think GATES wants to recreate the modern world exactly as he can. The main difference is him being some sort of guiding force or ruler.
“Our world has vastly more brutality, mindless violence and slavery than his world could ever have”. I hold the diametrically opposite viewpoint, and I think you have made a mistake in your reasoning. If I’m not mistaken you are drawing a comparison to things like the prevalence of child exploitation in poor countries (and even the child abuse found in western society), the senseless violence and rape in east Africa, the oppression of dictatorships like North Korea and Saudi Arabia, the unrest in the middle east, and the great acts of human evil that happen in events like WW2.
The thing I believe you are miscalculating is this: Those examples are all the WORST aspects of our society. It’s the things that happen at the very worst of times.
The situation we’re seeing in Endstone’s St. Louis under Primrose: If I’m not too mistaken, that seems like it’s almost the BEST of times; like that’s practically as good as it gets. St. Louis under Lord Quandel was probably on the level of utopia in Endstone world, because Quandel uncharacteristically afforded human rights to higher animals, i.e. creating the VERY conditions that WE experience every day.
Do you honestly think rape and pedophilia don’t happen in Endstone world? We don’t see it because that’s not what the story is about, but I see no reason to assume that ALL of the insidious horrible things that happen in our society don’t happen just as frequently in St. Louis; and that’s on top of all the OVERT horrible things that happen there.
In the anecdotes from various wars soldiers are occasionally said to have committed cannibalism. These anecdotes are told as horror stories and tales of caution. The people who commit such acts are living under conditions where civilization has broken down and are motivated by the inhuman atmosphere that surrounds them to commit reprehensible acts that they normally would not have done under the norms of regular society. The stories inspire revulsion and loathing in all who hear them and are told for that very purpose.
In St. Louis people are not living under the breakdown of civilization. They are not killing and eating thinking talking beings because they are driven to a state where society’s norms no longer apply. They are doing it as a regular everyday activity! This is an accepted way of living in what I, again, assume to be an example of civilization at its best in Endstone.
My conclusion is: I have a hard time imagining under what conditions Endstone would be considered an objectively better place to live than our world. Preferable, certainly, to those who grew up there and are used to that life, but it could absolutely stand to imitate our society on more than a few notes.
At the end of the day, I can’t help but side a little bit with Jon here.
Also, a thousand apologies to Tony for plastering this wall of text in his comments section.
No problem at all. Great post. 🙂 This is the central theme and it will be resolved (hopefully in satisfactory manner by yours truly) at the end of this issue. 🙂
“The world needs to change” is not quite right. “The world will change” sounds better. Change is the only real constant.
And Simon is perhaps the one with the biggest issues about accepting change from all the Characters.
It hadn’t consciously occurred to me, but this is probably one of the major themes of Endstone: Change is constant and how do we accept it. 🙂
As well as defining the line between acceptable and non-acceptable change. 🙂
Change is inevitable… except from a vending machine! 😀
But Jon, would you rather betray everyone for your supposedly perfect world, or destroy your only chance to change the world in an instant? Decisions, decisions…
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